Deduction of VAT

koenig

Hi,

I posed this question elsewhere but since I noticed that I am not alone in this I thought it only proper to ask this more prominently:

Is there a way to deduct the European VAT?

I have a VAT-ID in my country and whenever I buy from the EU I can state my VAT-ID and then pay the net price (and account for the VAT in my local currency instead). I gathered that this might be possible but I could not find a way when I pledged.

Carlos

Regarding VAT, we have been thinking and thinking about possible solutions. The problem stems from the poor tools that Indiegogo and Kickstarter offer to manage campaigns and billing.
Handling all situations would require creating perks for each country, for each discount and check the users don’t make a mistake at the time of supporting the campaign. It is far from a ideal solution. For European VAT holders it would require us to reimburse the proportional part, thus the administration workload and extra commission costs.
So, the only thing we can do is that you enjoy a good launching price.
We will be be able to solve all this if we have a successful campaign and we move to our ecommerce or retailing. But the OXI Price price will always be greater than now for sure.

SLiC

Carlos So does the price you are selling for include VAT or not? (are you paying the VAT tax on sales?)

koenig

Technically, all you have to do is to reimburse me the Spanish VAT (21%) and book the sale as a inter-EU sale, instead of booking it as a sale with VAT. I then book it as an EU import with the VAT rate that applies in my country. This of course means that you would not have to create special perks for every country but just have one for EU, VAT deductible.

My point is that for my purchase of a unit and a Split means that I pay €100 extra, money that unfortunately you never see but goes to your government instead. But, on the other hand, if this is a bother and not something you took into account, I can live with that.

Hopefully this thread has cleared up the issue for those of us backers who have the luxury of being able to make the purchase through a legal entity instead of personally. I don’t know how things are in Spain nowadays but perhaps the government can make do with some extra cash… 😄

Thanks for replying and good luck with the rest of the campaign! I have made sure to spread the word among my compatriots and I got the impression that one or two ordered one as well. I am really looking forward to November and the sequencer will be a nice addition to my rig and will definitely help light up the dark season!

koenig

Just to clarify: I am OK with how things are. I was just curious. Please keep on making good stuff!

Manuel

koenig Hi! We knew that deducting VAT is only available for “companies” with a VAT number, which are the minority. Providing a cheaper “VAT deductible” perk would create a lot of confussion among other backers, you know what I mean.
We will prepare our ecommerce soon to handle all these cases but for now it is not possible.
Thank you all for your support!

Manuel

SLiC We have to pay the 21% vat of course.

SLiC

Manuel

Then you have to pay this to the UK Government right (you cant keep VAT charged) ? Or I have to pay the tax ‘again’ on import and I am not sure that is legal…

SLiC

Manuel Great - In the UK (and I guess everyone out of the EU?) will everyone will need the price without VAT as we will be charged import and 20% VAT when you ship it top the UK (its collected by the currier) so you wont need to pay the 21% on exports. I am not sure anyone knows how it works EU- UK right now….who knows, maybe by November it will be sorted!

Manuel

Hi Slic, as we said, it was impossible to handle different tax % of the different countries.
We are obliged to present the VAT in the different regions inside the UE.
For the rest of the cases/coutries, the customer is in charge of customs and other delivery fees.

SLiC

Your price included VAT, I asked the time of ordering and it says so in this thread. You cant just select to not pay the VAT you have taken from UK customers and keep it for yourselves so that UK customers have to pay VAT twice?

That isn’t satisfactory, that means it will be 21% more expensive for customers in the UK than all other customers. Are you planning that the OXI will always be 21% more expensive in the UK than in the EU or just punishing early funders?

I (and I suspect all UK customers) will be very unhappy and the forums will just be full of angry posts which will be a shame when this can easy be resolved for the UK customers that have to pay the same VAT as the EU…most suppliers/music are registered for UK tax in exactly the same way as the EU….they don’t charge 21% more to the UK?!

Please do not penalise your UK supporters just because the UL left the EU….it wasn’t my fault!

SLiC

As was stated earlier, all you have to do is to reimburse me the Spanish VAT (21%) as you will; NBOT be paying this tax for UK exports.

ginfonic

The same for Russia, USA and the other non-EU countries. We’re, actually not being EU citizens, not obliged to pay EU VAT. We pay customs fee and VAT home importing goods. So you, as UK friend said before, force us to pay VAT twice: here in Spain and there home. I think it’s a bit unfair.
It’s clear you should not calculate VAT for every single country, only two options: 1) EU sale where you should pay and charge VAT; 2) non-EU export sale where you should not pay but should deduct VAT. All the famous EU music stores: Thomann and MusicStore do this. I think you have to do it as well.

Manuel

ginfonic That’s impossible to control/handle in Indiegogo, even less with all the VIP options. People would have gone for the cheapest option. The platform doesn’t offer any tool/control.

SLiC

Yes, I somehow doubt when the OXI is on sale in the shops in the UK that it will be 20%+ more expensive than in the EU shops….I dint think we should be penalised for supporting the Indigo campaign, ultimately it may have been cheaper for us to just wait and buy it in a shop if we end up paying double tax on the campaign ….

Manuel

SLiC Be sure future customers won’t enjoy a VIP discount. In any case, you can request a refund if you are not completely sure about your contribution. Shoot us an email in that case.

Same applies to anyone else.

But please, be aware with the increase in the price of components and raw materials of more than 40%, distribution margins etc., you won’t find the OXI One in retailing for much less than 700€.

davehouse

This bothered me from the start, too. I nearly didn’t back because the savings will be minimal once we’ve paid the UK VAT and fees. I understand Oxi are in a difficult position but it really sucks to pay extra when we’ve financially backed the project and helped make it a reality.

davehouse

And yeah, expect forum fuss on release (not from me but folk will be p*ssed, I guarantee it)

Manuel

davehouse I just checked you enjoyed a VIP discount. Be sure you won’t find this price in the future.

ginfonic

Manuel

Manuel Hi, Manuel. Yep maybe Indiegogo can’t accept it. But i’m not a backer. I just wanna to place a preorder here and now. And you not being indiegogo absolutely can do VAT deduction. You should not pay VAT to Spain tax service for my order shipped to Russia, so you should subtract VAT value from my price. It’s possible, the only point is in your intention.

davehouse

I definitely won’t be asking for a refund. I can’t wait to get mine 😁 It’s just a shame all the recent Brexit and Covid stuff has made it so hard for small businesses and consumers alike. As ever, thanks for being upfront about everything